submitted on August 22, 2009 9:54 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
a poem |
Comments: |
How could it be that smiling faces deceive the Child within. Striking faces, silence muting, step up on the pedestal again.
Caring not that actions done cost a survivor's fractured faith. Put on your frozen smile again to cover what you are. Giving
to the world does not erase the pain you caused. Go back to the place of your disgrace, your reality face what you have done.
You ruined the life of a believer. There is no recourse. You must pick up the million shards of what you have done, cutting
your fingers, experiencing the pain, and you must face it before you face heaven - or face it in Hell. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on August 20, 2009 2:14 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
On Monday, I was in surgery. When I awoke, there was no representative from the Roman Catholic Church. They were all busy
stonewalling and choosing their silent treatment and not really being ministerial. Two of the pastors from my new church came
to pray with me. They have known my bitterness and pain over being a survivor. They did not close the lines of communication
and use the silent treatment.
What would happen if Peggy or another survivor was hospitalized? I guess since they are survivors who are demanding reform
of the Roman Catholic Church, which is the correct and ethical thing to do, you, RC Church, deny compassion and ministry to
them. RC Church, you are diseased. You need to purge yourselves. You are very ill in secrecy and silence and in hiding and
ignoring the sins of your priests and nuns! |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on August 12, 2009 10:32 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
fragrantblossom.com |
Comments: |
SOUND over SILENCE.
SOS
Finally.
RC Church, your silence is not charismatic, lifegiving, healing or sharing of God's love. Look at that truth (veritas) squarely
and come to terms with what you created and start the steps to fix it. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on August 12, 2009 7:25 PM EDT |
Name: |
JohnB |
Email Address: |
john@september12009.com |
Web site URL: |
http://www.september12009.com |
Comments: |
Thanks Peggy - there is so much here - flags, myths greats stuff - blowing those myths is fantastic stuff
JohnB |
How did you hear about this site? |
Through genuinely helpful and proactive people |
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submitted on August 10, 2009 10:28 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Peggy,
Why did they pick us...to ruin our lives? These religious. Why did they come into our happy lives and cause the devastation
they did? If they took a step back, could they see with eyes of honesty and decency the devastation they caused? Was Sr.
Cathleen praying when my daughter lay in ICU, fighting for her life because her mom had been hurt and it affected my daughter
so much, that she didn't want to go on? these religious must realize that the bullet of their abuse is the kind that explodes,
causing major damage to the victim and to the victim's family. The silence IS violence. The jeering and anger IS salt in
the wound of the abuse.
I don't know how we got from Here I am Lord is it I Lord, the Jesuit Song, the Mass, all the wonderful things about that,
to being shut out, facing derision, being blamed, while those who hurt us were promoted and praised. I knew the priests who
wrote that song by the way. I was a very involved guitarist in college music ministry. I played solo guitar pieces at workships
in front of other music ministers. A talented guitarist. My guitar has not been picked up in a long time. It gathers dust
in my closet. I can't bring myself to touch it. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on August 10, 2009 11:30 AM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Lillian,
Sr. Cathleen showed you the true colors of deception. For me it was Bishop Jackels. Voelker showed me a glimpse, but it wasn't
until I met Bishop Jackels that everything became very clear. The colors of deception became so vivid that I knew I was done.
Jackels was a pro at deception. He had learned from the best - Cardinal Ratzinger, his boss for several years before coming
to Wichita. Over the next several months my decision was validated by stories from other victims and newspaper articles from
around the country like when Cardinal George in Chicago allowed Fr. Dan McCormick to stay in ministry and continue abusing
boys even after he knew McCormack was molesting and the police were investigating. Lillian, I am so happy you have found
your voice - keep making that beautiful sound! |
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submitted on August 10, 2009 10:33 AM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
My very last contact to Sr. Cathleen Marie was on her blog, which of course, was not approved. I shared with her that her
actions in my life caused me to lose faith in Roman Catholicism. For five years I could not step foot into a Roman Catholic
Church, and then, I realized I couldn't stay. I converted to the Protestant faith specifically due to Sr. Cathleen Marie's
actions.
Sr. Cathleen nor her order commented on my post. They didn't approve it and of course, her focus is on how she puts holy water
in her soap before she sells it. I am wondering if this is simony. Against the rules of the Catholic Church. but then, so
is abuse. As typical, the Catholic Church does absolutely nothing to fix the situation.
One of you voelker parishioners wrote that we should get back into the Mass. Excuse me? The Mass is not based on honesty or
what is right or true because the RC Church has allowed perpetrators to remain in their roles and turns a silent ear to hurting
survivors, while singing inspirational songs like "Here I am Lord". Where are you? Will you hold His people in your hearts?
Do you do this by going silent on them?
Peggy, don't worry. I have been more grounded than I've been in a long time, and free of the Catholic lie! Sr. Cathleen showed
me the true colors of deception. I will not attend Mass ever again due to her actions. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on August 10, 2009 10:24 AM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian Newman |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
fragrantblossom.com |
Comments: |
Thank you Peggy. I got tired of keeping the sordid secret. It feels like the Catholic Church approves of you only if you stuff
your pain down inside and don't talk about the abuse. This Sister continues to run a soap shop and blogs about it, producing
thousands of bars of handmade soap. Her abusive action towards me in my home happened after I taught her the art of hot process
soapmaking. She is on the council of the soap guild. Imagine how I feel. There has been no restorative justice.
For many of us survivors, it's not the money that we want. It's th eknowledge that the Roman Catholic Church has taken seriously
the abuse that happened in our lives and removed these religious from the opportunity to repeat their mistakes. This has not
happened. It's really hard to understand, to be honest with you all. The anger, defiance, and the blatant rewarding of individuals
who have devastated the lives of families. Our family is going back into counseling with this as the root of the destruction.
Peggy, thank you for sharing your courage to speak up. I found out I could, and I did. No longer victim. I am survivor. |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy and SNAP |
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submitted on August 9, 2009 9:27 PM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Lillian, You are so brave! I hope you get the justice that you deserve.
Peggy |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on August 9, 2009 6:37 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian Newman |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I was asked to post the website of Sister Cathleen Marie Timberlake, osb. I shall do so now. www.benedictinesisters.org
Sr. Mary Demetria Newman, osb, passed away in September. though I wrote in asking to go to the funeral, I received no response
until after Aunt Demetria was interred. Sr. Dawn Annette graciously put a rose on Aunt Demetria's grave for us. It is not
he same.
Sister Cathleen Marie puts holy water in the soap that she sells. this sister in 2001 did a topless chest massage on me for
allegedly therapeutic reasons, which I believed, and went silent on me when I needed explanation. I stopped going to Mass.
In this year, 2009, I no longer consider myself Catholic and have converted to the Protestant faith. Sister Cathleen Marie
makes soap for Monastery Scents. It is my hurt and painful realization that I believe Sister Cathleen Marie was never held
accountable for her actions, to my family, to the church. It would bring me great peace for her to step down from the soap
shop in reparation for the damage she caused me, and through me, my family, in 2001. |
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submitted on August 9, 2009 6:33 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian Newman |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
When the Sisters got back in touch with us in 2003 because we contacted them asking them for peaceful reconciliation, we were
not allowed to discuss the situation. I was told to read a book by another Benedictine Sister on how to "replace". I needed
to talk about what transpired. I did have one meeting where Sister Cathleen apologized for the silent treatment. Sister was
promoted into the council for the Soap Guild of America and continues to make thousands of bars of soap. Sister has never
candidly contacted me to talk at length about what she did and to experience reconciliation with our family, and henceforth,
closure. I left the Roman Catholic Church because of the actions of Sister Cathleen Marie Timberlake, osb. I continue to make
soap, but I no longer teach the art of soapmaking. She burned my ability to trust others. |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on August 9, 2009 6:29 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian Newman |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Setting myself free. The following is true to the best of my memory and recollection. In early February of 2001, Sr. Cathleen
Marie Timberlake, osb, of the Benedictine Sisters of Perpetual Adoration, came to my home for a visit. She is in my husband's
aunt's order. My husband's aunt is now deceased. Sr. offered me a Swedish massage after a soapmaking lesson. Sister told
me that the benefit of the chest being massaged topless was to "heal the sternum". Being a devout Catholic, I believed Sister
Cathleen Marie and her reasons for giving the massage and believed that she was a certified massage therapist (I found out
later that she took a crash course in massage from a California instructor). My husband and I learned four months later from
the leading massage ethicist, D. Dipol, and from my sister who is a nurse practitioner, that this type of massage is not part
of ethical massage. When I turned to Sr. Cathleen Marie for explanation, she went silent on us. My husband and I sent flowers
to the monastery. We were ignored for two years. to be continued. |
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submitted on August 9, 2009 11:01 AM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Behind every hurting and bitter survivor is a real person. Beneath the ice of winter is a beautiful resurrection, green grass,
a red rose blooming. Denial and silence is cold. Catholic Church, I beckon you into the Spring of reparation, reconciliation
and to follow Veritas. Do not go back into that cold winter of silence, denial and disdain for the survivor.
Jesus needs you to drop the silence and fix this. Remove the sick men and women who are violating children and vulnerable
adults from ministry. Purge your church. If you don't, your God won't be real. (And the people bowed and prayed to the neon
god they made, and the sign flashed out its warning, in the words that it was forming, and the sign said the words of the
prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls, and survivor hearts....this spurned the sounds...of silence).
If you don't fix it Catholic Church, your actions are merely words and when you say you love God, I am thinking you don't
really mean it. |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on July 23, 2009 5:01 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Thank you Peggy...you need to put a bulletin board on your website like what SNAP does..lots of people visiting, and I am
one of many who supports your work in Educating to End Abuse.
I will never be the same again and part of who I have become, is not Roman Catholic due to Cathleen's actions in my life.
Religious who cross boundaries and then use silence or anger or blame or shame...that's just not right. They are at fault
for what they did. Blaming the victim is never correct. Continuing to say Mass or do your ministry and ignore the person sexually
violated, does not a religious make. It makes actually, a coward. I am grateful for the work of the people in the survivor
movement who keep plugging away for change, for apology, for sound, and to ensure the safety of children and adults alike
from the predator hands of religious who should not be in religious life. |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on July 23, 2009 8:54 AM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Lillian,
Fabulous job speaking out and getting legislation changed! I truly believe that is where survivors will find justice. Regardless
of how the DA handled my case in Wichita, I do believe in our country's justice system. I ask victims/survivors call or email
your legislators and simple ask that legislation be changed whether it be lengthening the statute of limitations on childhood
sexual abuse or adding clergy to a list of professionals on unlawful sexual relation's statutes (in majority of states this
pertains to 16yr olds an up). It only takes a couple minutes of time but can make a world of difference - just look at Lillian's
case - now people that find themselves in an exploitive situation with a massage therapist can find justice! Pravo Lillian! |
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submitted on July 22, 2009 11:57 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
about calling the police |
Comments: |
Bonny,
I filed a police report. I involved the attorney general. Unfortunately, massage at that time was not regulated in my state.
After sharing my story with officials in the state of Indiana and with the help of the newly formed Massage Therapy board,
laws were passed in my state which now makes it illegal for Cathleen to do what she did in my home.
Bonny, you assumed I didn't call the police. You are incorrect. I filed a police report and I went to the attorney general.
Please ask me before you make assumptions. I do want to know how you know my website address. I took careful care not to
list it here simply because I do not wish as a survivor to put my URL here. My site is my site for business. This posting
follows a very personal healing journey.
Bonny, you state that she hurt you. Is she the one or did someone else hurt you?
Lillian |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 22, 2009 11:53 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Alex,
thanks for your response. I have learned to be suspicious. comes with surviving. comes with the realization that people who
are not survivors think that what i experienced was a joke or a laughing matter. Those who experienced situations similar
to what I experienced are bitter, but beyond that bitterness, there is a kindness. Gold tested in fire. I have come to know
that firsthand.
Due to Cathleen's actions in my life, I am no longer Roman Catholic, nor can i return to the Mass. But where a door closes,
a window opens. I learned that what she did was not lesbian. God allowed me to befriend a committed lesbian couple in friendship
this year and they have been really wonderful to know. Abuse is more of an abuse of power when a religious crosses boundaries.
We who were devout, lose our innocence forever. to be honest, I don't know how the grown survivors who were abused as children
can live with this. The pain from experiencing this religious violation with sexual overtones stays with you and if it doesn't
kill you, it makes you wiser.
Thank you to Peggy, Alex and the others who used kindness and sound to communicate. I have had enough hatred to last me a
lifetime and I am not a participant in that.
My statement of leaving Catholicism is based in fact. her actions in my life in 2001 caused me to leave Roman Catholicism.
I don't say that to "get her and put her in her place". I say it as a form of honesty. Her actions devastated my faith in
Catholicism. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 22, 2009 11:46 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Her name is Cathleen. I would not shoot her. I do not believe that shooting someone is the answer, nor is any type of violence.
The reason that my website was blocked was that it was hacked into. I have cleared my main business website.
You state that you are a survivor of Cathleen's as well. How do you know what my website is? I have not given out that information
and the only people who know about that situation are in the soap industry. Which means that you are as well.
This is not a laughing matter. I didn't make it up, in case that is what you are alluding to.
And, unlike you, I would not shoot Cathleen, nor any person who crossed the line with anyone. I simply ask that justice be
done. Her actions in my family's life caused us great harm.
Check my website in about a month. The computer problem, which was beyond my control, will be corrected by then. It's amazing
that you would leverage that at me when I had nothing to do with what happened to my site. I have changed the password to
my website so that it doesn't get hacked into again.
As far as posting her name, I have done so. Her name is Cathleen. I thought she was a friend of ours. Then she did what she
did and no friend does things like that. NO friend whips down sheets and touches another woman intimately like that claiming
that it's therapeutic, then goes silent. No true religious does these things. She may live the rest of her life with what
she did. Silence and violence are not the answer and shooting people is wrong. |
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submitted on July 17, 2009 5:11 PM EDT |
Name: |
bonny |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
n/a |
Comments: |
to lillian----if you think i think it funny--
WHO'S LAUGHING"!!! nOBODY HERE
THERE seems to be 2 sides--here
someone yelling at you from a van
and your side----what is this nuns
web site??
and if she would have done this
to anyone in my state --and i can speak for myself---I would have shot
her ---because i can defend my home
where ever!!!
Why did you not callthe police??
and report her sexual impractice?
No its not funny--but someone is
laughing wheni go to your web site
and it say
you cannot enter---you are forbidde n
to enter--
no it is not funny!!! |
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submitted on July 14, 2009 1:13 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Lillian, I have learned over the years that very wounded clergy abuse survivors alternate between reaching out to others and
then inexplicably withdrawing when offered the help. I believe this is due to inability to overcome the powerful sense of
mistrust of others that characterizes many abuse victims, in general - including people who weren't abused by clergy. I have
found that many victims are suspicious of other clergy abuse survivors being "church spies" or people who work for the Church
who are pretending to be clergy abuse survivors. I experienced some of this paranoid level of fear when I first found myself
at a survivor workshop that included seminarians and priests who had also been sexually abused by other priests! It had never
occurred to me that they might be victimizing each other, as well. Plus, the situation greatly challenged me in having to
accept those men as fellow clergy abuse survivors. Eventually, one former priest and his wife (a former nun) became good friends
of mine and boycotted (for my sake) any Masses that were being conducted by the priest who abused me. Nevertheless, it does
take time and willingness to take small risks, to arrive at a point where it's possible to be discerning and trust others,
again. At one time, if I saw a Roman collar headed my way, I'd cross the street so I didn't have to walk past a priest. Now
I don't 'react'. |
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submitted on July 12, 2009 11:37 AM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
to survivors,
Bonny never responded to my requests that she contact me directly. Two distinct possibilities. 1) that she is afraid, which
is unlikely because she posted here several times. 2) that she is someone who thinks something like this is funny.
tell me,those of you who are reading this and are not survivors by the grace of God. Do you think that what we survivors experienced
was funny. That we should grow up and get over it already?
You weren't there the night it happened. It didn't happen to you. It is not a joke. The type of spiritual support available
to survivors is near nil. Most walk through life and in the silence, learn to remain silent or fear derision, or sarcasm,
or jest.
I want to tell you all something that is very important.
It wasn't funny.
Have you been through surgery before, especially a difficult surgery that takes months to recover from. Being a survivor is
many times worse. The violation happens on many different levels.
If you are really a survivor of the person who not only hurt me, but hurt my family, I would like to hear from you. It's not
a joke. It's not something you brazenly pick up for a joke. If you are a survivor of another perpetrator, I would like to
hear from you.
The rest of you? When you joke around at our expense, you are crucifying your Jesus all over again.
I just can't go to church with you, because of the way you treat survivors. thanks for understanding why I can't sit next
to you at your Mass. |
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submitted on July 11, 2009 1:31 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Bonny,
I haven't heard from you. Can you contact me at the email that I sent you and send me your phone number please. I will give
you the information. If it is the same Sister, you can post it and I will confirm here publically. Thanks.
I really do need to speak to you, so please send me that email. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 10, 2009 5:09 PM EDT |
Name: |
bonny |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
lillian-----does this sr cathleen have a web site??
please post it---i think it is her |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 10, 2009 1:02 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
GUITARISTMOM@GMAIL.COM |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Bonnie, from one of Cathleen's survivors to another. I wish you peace and healing past the pain of what she did. Write me.
I will be cc'ing all to Peggy. I hope that's okay. Peggy's had this happen to her to. There's a lot of us, Bonnie, adults
who have lost our faith in the Roman Catholic church because of sexual violations by its religious and the pain burns. We
make it through by creating SOUND over their SILENCE. Peace and healing to you. Lillian guitaristmom@gmail.com (yes, I
am a songwriter and write music and have written music to help me in healing). |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 10, 2009 1:00 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
GUITARISTMOM@GMAIL.COM |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I became hateful. I screamed at SNAP. I screamed at my family. I was in so much pain! My daughter could not deal with what
had happened to her mother and attempted suicide TWICE. Where was Sr. Cathleen? Was she praying in the chapel when my daughter
was in ICU and we were fighting for her life? Does she know what she has done to our family? Why has the church allowed her
to remain a nun? Is it fair to the Sisters around her who have lived their lives devoutly that she is allowed to continue
on without severe repercussions? Why is she running a soap store? Do people know that the hands that made those soaps were
massaging my bare chest? Tell me. What justice is there to this?
Bonnie, what did she do to you? Email me please. I have created a nonbusiness email address so that you can correspond with
me on this and I want to hear from you. Did she hurt you too? This woman needs to be stopped. She's now in on the steering
committee of the soapmaking guild of America. What is she doing there? Around other women? WOmen like me, soapmakers in their
homes who go to conferences, who believe, and trust in this Sister? Why?
Okay, take a deep breath Lillian. Peggy, and other survivors know..you carry your pain with you and though the scar is whitening,
the pain sears through your soul and you are never the same. Ever. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 10, 2009 12:53 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Continued. The next day. My husband and I, devout Roman Catholics, gave Sister about $300 of fragrance oils for her soap
ministry. She went back to her home which was then in St. Louis. She kept in touch. Her emails to me grew very affectionate.
I would share them with my husband. We opted to believe that there was a reason to all of this and that she was writing so
affectionately because she was a sweetheart of a person and also, that the topless massage was legitimate and we believed
this because we were DEVOUT Roman Catholics in DENIAL. Finally 4 months later, after she screamed at me in a van that I
was not allowed to end the relationship with her, I went home and broke down in front of my husband. I was trying to be the
devout Catholic that I was, trying to normalize the abnormal. For a solid year after the abuse, I continued to believe there
was a REASON she had done this. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 10, 2009 12:50 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Hi Bonnie,
I am so sorry if you were also victimized by this Sister. I know full well that an attorney sits on their council. I am protected
as you are, by the right of our free speech. But staying to factual is very important.
In 2001, Sister Cathleen came from Clyde Missouri to my home in Noblesville, Indiana. She came to learn the art of hot process
soapmaking. To the best of my recollection and understanding, she offered me a swedish massage, which I initially refused,
but not because I didn't trust her. I was a devout Catholic and believed that our religious kept their vows. Sister ended
up giving me that swedish massage. She said that the chest massage was to "heal the sternum" and I believed her reasons. The
top of the sheet was not brought down gently, however. It was whipped down and my entire front chest area was massaged undraped.
There is more about what happened but I will not post it. After the massage she said to me "thank you for letting me be your
very first one". |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 10, 2009 11:27 AM EDT |
Name: |
bonny |
Email Address: |
zeroyou@mailbug.com |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
lillian----what is this sister cathleen email address? if it is the same one she is in missouri---there is a nun place near---the
st. benedict convent--is that it?? I had a mail probelm with these nuns--tell me what is her email address
no it is not on spam---i did not get it try again-- |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 9, 2009 7:24 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Bonnie can you check your spam folder. It might have fallen into there. I sent you one and cc'd it to Peggy.
I'm in Indiana and the nun who did this in 2001 lives in Missouri. To date, she's not truly been held accountable for her
actions to our family. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 9, 2009 12:32 PM EDT |
Name: |
bonny |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
lillian---what state are you writing this
from??
what city and parish are you talking about
i didnot get an email---
possible miscommuication |
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submitted on July 8, 2009 3:43 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I will contact you privately. I need to say something on this guestbook. You take the most devout, the kindest, the most
trusting people, and you put someone who violates in their homes, in their parishes, and this is what happens. You religious
don't realize that we who were hurt loved our religion deeply. We loved God. We loved praying, singing with you, sharing.
Then we were hurt.
And you ridiculed us, went silent on us, yelled at us, treated us very, very badly.
From this we are supposed to bounce back, pretend nothing happened, try to forgive, but the nails of fire that you pounded
into our hearts by your inconsiderate silence and your blatant, angry put downs of survivors (I have seen Peggy and others
get bashed to the nth degree from just trying to heal - it's hard to heal when you're labelled the problem!), those very failures
to be open, to introduce sound over silence, to try to make things right, to introduce a sense of ethics and social justice
(accountability), have made a lot of people lose faith in the Catholic Church. Before you invite us to your Mass, clean your
churches...and that includes, remove the predators. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 8, 2009 12:59 PM EDT |
Name: |
bonny |
Email Address: |
zeroyou@mailbug.com |
Web site URL: |
n/a |
Comments: |
lillian---please emailme about this
i have read about st cathleen--and what
was said---i was abused but never left the church---however--it came close--i feel it is that exact person who abused me not
the church--however now you can report it to the law---
back in the 60 and 50's you could not they could "do what they want"
abuse is abuse--no matter when where
but i cannot understand why would this person read your email then laugh
why does she not leave you alone
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How did you hear about this site? |
peggy |
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submitted on July 7, 2009 8:03 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Thank you Peggy for your kind thoughts. Her actions, compounded by the actions of the man who hurt you and all those religious
who crossed lines, then used silence and blatant disregard for the people whose lives they wounded, enhanced by those lay
religious who are in such a denial that they would defend Satan himself in a collar, these things have caused me to look away
from organized religion and look to God alone.
We grew up singing those reverent hymns, and we were led to believe that religion was about honesty and about truthfully being
responsible before God.
I look at the Bishops who have completely disregarded the needs of the hurting, and a Church steeped in denial. I call out
to the genuine religious reading this and ask you to fight, to take your church back. All religious who have violated, they
need to step down and those they have hurt are in need of healing!
I experienced this situation first hand, so I could see with my own eyes, that those of you who used silence with survivors
while singing "Here I am Lord, is it I Lord?" are incredibly conflicted. I guess I just wonder, those of you religous reading
this who have used the silent treatment with survivors, when was it, when you also went silent on God by your actions...
peace, Peggy. Peace to survivors reading this. We survived it. Speak out in sound, and overcome their blatant lack of faith.
Lillian |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on July 5, 2009 11:09 AM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Lillian, You are right, what happened can never be undone. And she will never change. Research studies show us these people
can not be rehabilitated. But you changed, you evolved over some treacherous,bumpy roads along the way. You have evolved
into a wiser, stronger, more couragous person than you ever imagined. Stay focused on the positive - there is so much good
in this world. Life is to be enjoyed! I am so proud of you! Much love and peace sent your way on our nation's birthday
weekend! Peggy |
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submitted on July 4, 2009 8:47 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian N. |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I left this post on Sister Cathleen's "soap blog". She will read it and delete it as her posts are moderated. Because it is
being deleted, I shall leave it here.
Those of you practicing Catholics who judgementally visit this guestbook have no clue as to how we who have been inappropriately
touched have had our lives altered.
The silent and sometimes angry response you post here, costs me my faith every time you have posted fighting with Peggy. You
are harming us who are trying to heal. With that said, I will leave, on this 4th of July, a copy of the remark I left on Sr.
Cathleen the soapmaker's blog. She'll read it, most likely laugh, and delete it. It won't be deleted here.
It may seem that life has gone on, but for me, it hasnt, nor will it. Anger aside, I look to you on this 4th of July to let
you know how your actions have affected me. I left the Catholic Church because of what you did, and do not attend church services.
You can be silent, angry, whatever, but in this moment, between you, me and God, I ask for Him to call to your heart the unfairness
of your actions in 2001, the effects of those actions upon me and my family and I ask for him bring justice to this, a justice
that will have peace overbearing after the resolution.
You cannot go into someones house, do what you did, and just move on. For you to do that, is a slap in the face to God, as
it was to me.
I have left Roman Catholicism and I shall never return to Mass, because of what you did on that February night in 2001. You
can be silent and angry with me for a lifetime, but you cannot change this. Your actions harmed me and I will never be the
same. Ever. |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on June 16, 2009 8:20 PM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Arthur, You are an inspiration to me!
Peggy |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on June 16, 2009 6:23 PM EDT |
Name: |
Arthur Baselice Jr. |
Email Address: |
abazz30@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Keep up the good work ! |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on June 11, 2009 12:38 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian Newman |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
www.lilliannewman.com |
Comments: |
I want to share the latest poem that I wrote. You see, God understands about survivors more than any of you do. They did this
to Jesus.
http://www.lilliannewman.com/survived.html
Peggy, you hang in there. God is not about silence! |
How did you hear about this site? |
peggy |
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submitted on June 9, 2009 6:40 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
www.lilliannewman.com |
Comments: |
Hi Alexandria, Peggy and all. For 8 years I lived in shame, that I had somehow done something wrong. Mother Church used the
silent treatment when I did the right thing and placed the report I needed to place.
With that silent treatment came a pain that was torturous as I was octracized at many levels. Like the quilt of my faith so
intricately designed, hours of prayer, the silence ripped a shred through my faithfilled soul. I emphasize the silence because
it is vital for the church to know that had these wrongs been seriously addressed and a formal apology given, knowing the
religious was confined for life from doing this again. Catholic Church it was HUGE! The situation itself, the pain following.
Hear us.
Speak. Validate. It's not easy! How do you justify silence with the Gospel message? What did they do to Jesus? Octracize Him?
Ignore Him? Beat Him? Barabbas got off scot free, and Jesus was blamed. Church, look at what you are doing! It hurts! |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on June 5, 2009 10:36 AM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Lillian, thank you for your kind encouragement. I could have 'stood my ground' and not moved, but at the time I felt need
for distance -- just not for quite as long as it turned out to be.At this point, I have the opportunity to return home to
assist with caring for my mother who is suffering from early-stage dementia. I will also be working to complete a historical
novel I began many years ago, along with wanting to complete a book about my clergy abuse experiences. I invested about three
years of research into the historical novel when the Jesuit exited my life and rendered me something I've compared to being
as still-barely-breathing road kill. I'm someone who is otherwise very good at objectifying my emotions. Thank God, I had
a great therapist, good support network and good books to reference and assure me that I was no more "at fault" than any other
clergy abuse victim. What continues to bother me is the fact that Roman Catholic Church is still doing a very poor job of
screening priest candidates. They're so desperate to fill dwindling ranks -- because the mandatory celibacy requirement is
discouraging more and more men from making the commitment -- they're taking the only men proving still willing to fill the
priestly role -- because it (still) serves as sheep's clothing cover for predators. Until the Church allows for married clergy,
it will continue to experience problems in recruiting psychologically healthy candidates for formation. The only smart response
I've seen to the clergy abuse crisis is recruitment of priests who are widowers or divorced or are 'older' when they enter
the seminary. The men already know what they're going to be 'missing' when they take the vow of celibacy, because they've
already had full lives. The priest who abused me entered seminary right out of high school at age 17. Or how stupid is it
to honestly expect a 17-year-old to remain both celibate and chaste for the duration of his life? |
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submitted on June 4, 2009 12:15 AM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Alexandria best wishes on your move. He doesn't own California. I lived in Cali for most of my childhood. Join the very many
of us who don't have know your predator and look how happy our lives are. He is a tiny little blob. Look up and see the mountains.
He lost. You won your self back and you are off limits to predators. Good for you.
The wisdom that I gained was in deception stained. But then I took out the cleanser with bleach and did a lot of hard, emotional
work to work through it, and survived.
Do you notice...when you get to really know a survivor and talk to them, past the extremely bitter painful fallout period
after the abuse, did you notice how nice survivors truly are? They are decent, kindhearted, good people. Gold tested in fire.
The state is not his. It's yours. Write us when you get back home and let us know how you are doing.
|
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on June 3, 2009 5:21 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
To Jenny: you have my sincere sympathy for your loss and my prayers that you will gradually be able to take comfort in the
loving, happy memories of your daughter, that you will now carry forth, for both of you. To Lillian: your poem was a searing
testament to the real impacts of clergy abuse. I was impressed, in particular, with the refrain line, "The wisdom that I gained
Was in deception stained." Dr. Rudder who wrote "The Betrayal Bond" said clergy abuse causes the most egregious and long-lasting
damage, precisely because every moral precept we've been taught to revere is thrown into question, when the clerics who teach
us moral values turn out to be demons in disguise. Nevertheless, I encourage every survivor on this board to continuously
reject the 'victim' role. The abuser only 'wins' when we concede defeat to the damage done to us. And no, Amy and Marie, moving
beyond abuse doesn't mean staying silent about what happened to us. But that also doesn't mean giving up on the dreams I had
for myself, before a damned Catholic priest decided he wanted me for his plaything, and resorted to lies to detour me ...
I'll be checking the board, as able, but wanted to let you all know I am moving from my current home, back to the home state
I left 5 years ago. The priest who abused me has been told ifhe doesn't like the fact I'm returning, he can move! My family
and most of my best long-term friends still live there. Or: why should I give them up because of what he did to me? It's not
really his "turf" though I know that even men who aren't priests feel that when a divorce or break-up occurs the woman is
"supposed to leave" and he gets to stay put. So why do we even believe or buy into these ridiculous, unwritten rules?! Please
pray remain focused and organized in the weeks ahead as I have much sorting and packing to do. The very thought of it overwhelms
me.
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submitted on June 1, 2009 9:07 AM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Jenny,
I am so sorry for the loss of your beloved daughter. There truly is no greater loss than the loss of a child. Take care of
yourself - peace and sympathy - Peggy |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on June 1, 2009 2:14 AM EDT |
Name: |
Jenny Galloway |
Email Address: |
galloway5061@charter.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Peggy this is Jenny and I wanted you to know that my 30 year old daughter died two week's ago, thank you for what you are
doing and God be with you and your family, Love Jenny Galloway |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 30, 2009 6:48 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
|
Web site URL: |
www.lilliannewman.com |
Comments: |
I wrote a poem. This is for survivors of abuse by priests, both children and adults. For the intense violation you suffered.
For the silence you did not deserve. Part of understanding how to heal from what happened to me, is to look at you, and know
that I am not alone.
This is the poem:
Perception seemed crystal clear
the magician seemed so wise
he created an illusion before your eyes
drawing you in
spinning web of sin
Loving gestures, just his selfish lies!
How do I begin to learn to trust again.
The wisdom that I gained
Was in deception stained.
How do I believe
in FAITH
when I must grieve
the loss of innocence, his implicit gain?
How do I survive this searing pain?
Innocence is lost
a price beyond all cost
stained glass broken into shards
tried to look beyond
but bitterness formed ice
by trusting him, paid the ultimate price
How do I begin to learn to trust again.
The wisdom that I gained
Was in deception stained.
How do I believe
in FAITH
when I must grieve
the loss of innocence, his implicit gain?
How do I survive this searing pain?
Silent church not near
is it anger or their fear
resentment heaped upon my painfilled soul
silence without sound
lack of charity abounds
within the unbending heart of mother church.
How do I begin to learn to trust again.
The wisdom that I gained
Was in deception stained.
How do I believe
in FAITH
when I must grieve
the loss of innocence, his implicit gain?
How do I survive this searing pain?
Amen. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 30, 2009 6:37 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I remember Yvonne Maes. I was at a SNAP conference and she signed a book for me. She referred to a blossoming flower in her
note in the book. My company name is based on the blossoming flower concept and she had no way of knowing that. I do believe
in God and I don't think God agrees with the silent treatment and the resentment directed at survivors.
I feel that everything I loved about the RC Church was wrong because when the chips were down they went silent on us. All
of us survivors. They left us out in the cold with that silence. I have heard accounts of survivors being made to stand in
the rain. What kind of compassion is this?
I learned of a Sister on the east coast who is speaking out for survivors. She is courageous because most either are too afraid
or couldn't be bothered with facing the truth. In what I know to be the true path of faith, those who speak out, walk it.
The owner of this website, the nun speaking out, and I am going to include David Clohessy and all those in SNAP who work tirelessly
in spite of their pain for survivors. Since I posted my account, I dropped the shame. Peggy's page on this site, Let Go
of Guilt and Shame, was right on. We are shamed into silence. Why shame. We did nothing wrong except trust a religious. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 30, 2009 1:17 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I know the author of "The Cannibal's Wife." Former nun (37 years!) Yvonne Maes, has been living and working in Beijing, China
for the past four years. She was teaching ESL classes at a university and has told me how interesting it has been to live
in a country that "functions quite well, without religion." Yvonne will be retiring soon, to her childhood home in Alberta,
Canada. As survivors of clergy abuse go, she remains one of my heroes and role models. She's far-surpassed "survivor" and
is thriving, very nicely -- no thanks to "good Catholics" who shunned her after she reported her retreat director to canon
authorities, for sexual and emotional abuse ... For a time, after she left her order and was recovering from her abuse, Yvonne
did volunteer work for a domestic violence crisis center in Vancouver B.C. When I visited Yvonne there, she showed me the
files she kept, documenting the rate of spousal and partner abuse murders committed against women in Vancouver. Shocking!
She also shared with me her dismay over dealing with a clergy abuse case in Vancouver, where -- true to form! -- the loyal
parishioners had allied with the offender priest and the woman victim had no one (except for Yvonne and her sister) supporting
or defending her. Or sad to note: not only are clergy abuse and misogyny not rare phenomena, the even more disturbing tendency
of enablers to rally round abusers, rather than their victims, is as prevalent as well. Don't people who support priests accused
of abuse ever once stop to ask themselves why they're so quick to automatically believe the priest is to be supported, at
all costs?! The Stepford Wives have nothing on well-brainwashed parishoners. |
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submitted on May 30, 2009 11:34 AM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Betrayal Bond was one of the first books I bought 5 yrs ago. How Little We Knew is also good and Cannibal's Wife and Victim
to Survivor |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 30, 2009 11:10 AM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Lillian, I hear you! Again, I am going to reccomend to all posting to this board that you read "The Betrayal Bond." It really
helped me arrive at an understanding of the true extent of the problem and what perpetuates it. The dismantling of the abuse-cycle
is no easy thing, but well worth the effort. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 29, 2009 7:47 AM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
lilliannewman.com |
Comments: |
The survivor travelsa lonely journey. Only other survivors know the great heartache and intense pain brought on by clergy
violation. The laity surround the violator, promote the violator. My violator sits on a national soapmaking committee.
One time last year, our family tried to make contact with her on facebook to ask her to go through the process of reconciliation,
sound, and understanding and she proceeded to block us. Everything I knew about religion, about charity, about going to Mass,
about giving, died on February 2, 2001. I attempted to go back over the 8 years after, but would break into tears walking
into church, and have to immediately leave. In 2009, I know that my faith as a Roman Catholic is dead. I must explore it elsewhere.
I know what is written about forgiveness, but I know full well that there must be social justice. Survivors want to be validated.
When you take a religious who has erred in boundary violations and put him or her back around people, you are saying, RC Church,
in a way that you trust that person far more than the victim. Did the victim lie? No. The RC Church just stopped listening.
Canon law not followed. The whole thing is a festering sore. Relocation of violators from situation to situation, back around
people. Who is next. Who is next on that person's list. Which vowed religious's errors in touching physically will result
in years of devastation? Parishioners who defend Fr. Voelker, Sr. Cathleen Timberlake, and others you have no clue.I did not
sue. My husband's aunt was the order. She died. We were not allowed to go to the funeral. |
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submitted on May 28, 2009 2:41 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Hello to Everyone,I am in the process of re-reading an excellent book titled, "The Betrayal Bond" by Patrick J. Carnes, Ph.D.
I not only recommend this to abuse survivors, I would urge people who think they "know" what our experience is and how we
"should" respond to read this as well. For survivors, this book is an excellent recovery and prevention tool. For people unfamiliar
with the dynamics of abuse, this book is a terrific eye-opener and includes examples of clerics, including the late and Jim
Jones and Rev. Porter, whose abuses of others netted them an infamous spot in religious history. Jones coerced over 900 people
into committing mass suicide, by ingesting poisoned Kool-Aid, and Porter sexually abused over 240 children. Unfortunately,
most clerics who are abusive of others are enabled in remaining anonymous, because both their victims and deluded congregants
remain silent. People like Peggy, Lillian, Bonny and myself, fall into the very small percentage of victims (estimated at
being less than 7% of actual number) who actually go public with their stories and / or seek legal assistance. It disturbs
me greatly to know that I amount to being "tip of the iceberg" in reflecting a much bigger problem. Or why, when I see posts
from the likes of Amy and Marie, my reaction is to speak out more, rather than less, so the other 93% of those victims who
are still too afraid to come forward, will see it is possible to stand up to abusers and those who support them. |
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submitted on May 28, 2009 9:16 AM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
http://www.lilliannewman.com |
Comments: |
This morning I attended Bible study in a nonCatholic Church. Everyone was kind and accepting and warmly greeting me in the
courageous Christian gift of sound. I shared about my past with the Catholic Church and they didn't flinch, go silent on
me or change how they treated me.
This morning we studied Romans 6. Step into righteousness. I invite the Roman Catholic Church to step into the righteousness
of good sound and stop ignoring survivors and their pain.
In the time I have been here, I have gotten to know Peggy a little and I'm going to let the Catholics reading this know something
about her. She is a warm and loving person behind her pain. She courageously listens and gives sound to other survivors, despite
her own pain.
The thing that bothered me very deeply beyond the abuse that I suffered was that the Church could be so silent and its religious
members. If, RC Church, you wonder why survivors are so angry, well, it's because you are treating them with silent treatment
and selective and stored anger. Open your Bibles and do a Lectio Divina on Romans 6. Take that into your hearts and listen.
There is deep pain here. It cripples survivors DEEPLY. Listen. Romans 6. Do not wait one moment longer, RC Church! |
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submitted on May 27, 2009 6:14 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Hi All. Alexandria, believe me, it was shocking. This was the campus minister that encouraged my guitar skills, who actually
submitted a recommendation when I considered religious life in college, that I would be a good religious. I can't tell you
how many dinners my husband and I treated her to when we lived in California.
To call up and simply announce who I was before asking her for the prayer request and to get such ugliness! My husband couldn't
believe it. He called her and got the same. I have pulled my name from the alumnae newsletter for the California Catholic
College I attended (CSJ Sisters) in Los Angeles. I do not want to have any type of literature sent from them to my home.
It all changes folks, when you're a survivor. All the kind platitudes, the service, the missions, the presence. It's all slated
for nonsurvivors. You get touched, you are,for the entire Roman Catholic Church, the weakest link. So after almost giving
my life to it (I discerned for religious life for 5 years right after college) I know own absolutely none of it nor do I want
to. They are not for real. Any religious who uses the silent treatment to communicate with a hurting Catholic is not practicing
their faith!
My daughter survived. We continue to work with her. Her life, messed up by what happened to me. It hurt her very deeply. She
blames Sr. Cathleen in all of her writings when in the intensive care that she went through after both her attempts. Sr. Cathleen
goes off to teach soap, and is on the guild membership, and pretends she didn't do anything wrong. It's absolutely heinous
how this has been handled.
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submitted on May 27, 2009 1:48 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Hello Everyone, I've been offline because I am on vacation - much needed and long overdue. In the midst of this, I decided
that I will be returning to California, to live. This will be a major step for me as I left here, five years ago, because
of having been abused. My feeling at this time is, if anyone is going to give up their home, again, he can do it! I will no
longer be martyr to his sins against me. Although priests are hardly unique among men in having the expectation that any woman
they've abused or shamed themselves with will leave, while the man retains his "turf." I challenged this long-standing, irrational
presumption of the man staying and the woman leaving when I, yesterday, left a note tacked to the bulletin board, on the door
of the priest's office. I hope it gives him a heart attack as I wrote, "I am moving back ... "
Lillian, I was horrified when I read about what that nun said to you. No religious is justified in withholding spiritual or
moral support based on gossip or third hand information. She owed you the courtesy of hearing out what you had to say, at
the very least. I do not understand these Catholic religious who presume it correct to only hear-out one side of an issue
(the religious's side) and in turn pass judgement on the person(s) they have not spoken with. It is astonishing to me that
so many Catholic religious remain so woefully, willfully ignorant in the alleged name of protecting their beliefs. If one
is truly confident in one's beliefs, their is no fear associated with hearing opposing or different beliefs.
I also wondered, briefly, if this nun has an abuse-related issue in her own past that she has yet to face up to? It wouldn't
be the first time I've found out that some of the most vehement defenders of predatory priests, were themselves victims of
clergy abuse. |
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submitted on May 26, 2009 1:43 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Hi Peggy,
I and other survivors on this board affirm and value you for what you have done in our lives and for helping us to find our
voices. I want you to know that I continue to work on healing issues. I have a website, lilliannewman.com if you want to
read some of what I have been working on. Survivors, consider blogging, or doing a website. Anything to help you with this
ongoing process of healing.
I am proud of you Peggy, for turning your pain inside out to help so many who don't have the courage that you do. I am honored
to consider myself one of your many friends.
Lillian
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submitted on May 26, 2009 10:44 AM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Lillian,
I am so sorry - you have been to hell and back but now you are stronger than ever! I am so proud of you! It is extremely
sad that the 'religious' who are supposed to help us through this life of ups and downs can't handle conflict. I have often
wondered if that is why they go into the religious life so they don't have to deal with the one-on-one conflict that true,
real life relationships bring with them. It is so much easier to have a relationship with a God, a Jesus, a spirit that (if
we are being realistic), doesn't talk back. |
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submitted on May 25, 2009 9:29 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
That night it rained. I had shared that during my initial healing, I withdrew into myself. My daughter turned to a life of
parties to cope, experienced a rape, and unable to cope with it, attempted to end her life. The doctor looked at us as she
lay in ICU and told us she may not survive the night.
It was raining that night. I was in tears. Yet still, I tried to draw upon the strength that I had experienced from the Roman
Catholic Church prior to my abuse. I called up my campus minister, Sr. Theresa. Right away, when she found out who was calling,
this sister, who used to be so kind to us, was ice cold. Apparently gossip goes from order to order. She was icy. "What do
you want?" Her abrupt and angry tone set me back. I was going to ask her for prayers for my daughter in ICU, but did not
feel that I could. I told her "I've changed my mind about the reason I had to call you tonight, Sister." She said to me "Lillian.
Go! Love and serve the Lord and don't you EVER call me again!" Abrupt hang up. I was stunned. Survivors are labelled. I called
her back and I said "you do not know the reason I called and I am quite taken aback at your anger towards me!" She repeated
in a monotone. "Go and love and serve the Lord and don't you ever contact me again!" I hung up. I took the piece of paper
the phone number was on, and tore it into a lot of tiny shreds and threw it on the freeway.
It was raining that night. God cried. |
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submitted on May 25, 2009 7:34 PM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Hi Margaret,
Thank you for signing my guestbook. I am so sorry for the pain you have suffered. Changing public awareness begins with
speaking out - like you are doing! You should be proud of yourself. If you want to write your story and post in on my website,
you could do that too. Is your perp still married?
What state are you in? Maybe you could start working with a legislator on getting some statutes changed.
You should check out www.adultsabusedbyclergy.org. , a lot of good info on that website.
Take care of yourself - remember you are your first priority!
Peace,
Peggy Warren
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How did you hear about this site? |
me |
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submitted on May 25, 2009 6:06 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Bonnie, when you post, can you do it without the F word? It lowers you to their level, and you don't want to be there. It
can also trigger survivors who are trying to heal.
Why stoop to their level of anger? Speak your truth but the anger and the profanity really bothers me. It makes me feel like
you are screaming at me. |
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submitted on May 25, 2009 3:48 PM EDT |
Name: |
bonny |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
mar.mary price--LCSW-------THIS IS FOR YOU----YOU PUT YOUR EMAIL PULBIC--BUT I WILL NOT RESPOND---I WANT TO TELL YOU THAT
I MYSLEF HAD A PROBLEM WITH A LCSW---AND SHE---CAME ON TO ME----THEN PUT THE FUCKING BLAME ON ME!!!!!THIS IS WRONG BUT I COULD
NOT DO ANYTHING WITH ALL THE THREATS I HAD FOR YEARS
I WAS HARRASSED , AND PUT IN A WAY WHERE SHE HAD ALL ON HER SIDE AND NOTHING ON MINE SHE EVEN ASKED ME TO WRITE TO HER---SOMETHING
I DID--THEN SAVED EVERTHING TO USE AGAINST ME SOME FUCKING BITCH HUH///I COULD NOT EVEN GET OVER THE FACT SHE HAD EVEN INVITED
ME TO HER HOME---AND MADE ME FEEL AT HOME---THEN DENYED SHE EVER DID ---WHAT A FUCKING BITCH----THEN WHEN I WANTED TO REPORT
HER---THEY WROTE BACK
WITH A LETTER--SAYING THEY NEVER HEARD OF HER---AND I MUST HAVE THE WRONG BOARD----SOME FUCKING LIERS---
THERE IS ONLY ONE PERSON WHOWAS WILLING TO HELP ME SHE IS A SWEET PERSON--THAN I WILL NOT NAME BUT SHE DID HELP ME FIND THE
TRUTH ABOUT HER
BECAUSE SHE KNEW HER VERY WELL---SHE TOLD ME--ON THE PHONE WHAT REALLY HAPPENED--AND I TOLD HER WHAT SHE DID AND SHE TOLD
ME--'SHE WOULD REPORT HER'
SHE MUST HAVE BECAUSE I GETTING THE SAME FUCKI NG THREATS LIKE YEARS AGO
TO HER I SAY--FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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submitted on May 25, 2009 11:51 AM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Thank you for sharing your account, Margaret Mary. Sound. The Churches should see that - I know they are reading. They don't
understand until a person finds his or herself in the situation. The power differential handicaps us. We are trying to find
God, and instead, get violated. Religion is a movement of the heart and sensitivity and intimacy revolve around the entire
movement, in retreats and group prayers and that God is love and it's a perfect breeding ground for predators, unfortunately!
:(
I'm glad Peggy has this guestbook. I hope she starts a forum on her website for us to continue the SOUND, and continue building
our own self respect and healing. |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on May 25, 2009 3:03 AM EDT |
Name: |
Margaret Mary Price |
Email Address: |
Stevie597@aolcom |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I am a 50 year old educated, intelligent, professional woman, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker. I had no idea that what
the priest in my life was doing to me was a boundary violation and constituted abuse. I beat myself up for years for being
blind to this. The (Episcopal) priest who exploited me was very charming, patient and excellent at the grooming process.
I eventually reported his behavior and the church officials refused to talk with me - unless I gave them a statement with
their attorney. They then wiggled out of repsonsibility for it. They then allowed him to marry a parishioner who was his
next victim. I want so much to be a part of educating and changing public awareness. How to do it? I'm much better but
still suffer from some PTSD. Thanks |
How did you hear about this site? |
surfing the web |
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submitted on May 24, 2009 11:08 AM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Alexandria. It was not your fault. It will never be your fault. You did nothing wrong. We survivors keep trying to explain
and I know for me sometimes I feel really stupid that I trusted but the long and short of it is that it wasn't our fault.
You know the truth. This is not your fault. Stay there as you were victimized, survive and claim your self worth back. I'm
handing a little bit more of it over.
ALexandria: It was not your fault.
Peggy. It was not your fault.
Bonnie. It was not your fault.
Every single survivor reading this today. IT WAS NOT AND WILL NEVER BE, YOUR FAULT! Take that right into your healing heart
and keep it as the truth that it is. Not your fault.
Lillian. It was not my fault.
It was not our fault that we trusted in the religious of the Roman Catholic Church and tried to find God through them.
We are survivors. We are overcoming with a courageous sound!
Sound
Over
Silence.
I have found my voice. Thank you, Peggy and educatingtoendabuse.com for helping us to find our voice and speak up.
One more thing. The light that shattered the darkness, will put together the broken pieces of our hearts. Truth, goodness
in its every essence, is not silent, and does not blame victims!
Not our fault! :)
Peace!
Lillian |
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submitted on May 23, 2009 6:27 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I will now continue with the Grand Canyon damage that happened in my life after the event that found me under the hands of
a nun doing a topless massage.
1. My daughter C, despondent that mom was severely and emotionally damaged from this action, turned to a life of going to
parties. At one of these parties, she was given alcohol at the age of 17, and raped.
2. Same daughter could not cope with mom not present, the rape, silent Church. She attempted suicide and spent a night in
ICU. Two years later, she tried again. In her therapy she places the blame of all the hell she has gone through, on the
nun who did this.
3. For 8 years, I could not go into a church, any church. I would break down into tears and have to leave. Sometimes I tried,
but I couldn't stay. I had to leave. It completely lost all meaning for me. I do believe in God, but I couldn't find Him through
the Roman Catholic Church. Your silence was violence. It was not kind. It was not prayerful. It was devoid of compassion and
heartbreaking.
3. In the end, the psychological damage that was done in my life by the abuse resulted in my inability to reconcile with my
Catholic faith. It died in the waters of a baptism of another church. For the sake of my husband's family, I gave it one more
try, but felt nothing.
In 2001, I was a liturgical guitarist, a songwriter, and loved being in the Mass, singing for Mass. Your silence, your blame,
your shame, I will not accept from you Catholic Church.
The violation caused me to lose my faith in Roman Catholicism.
I have enrolled in Bible study at a Christian church. No matter what kind of day I am having, they talk to me. They know what
happened. They still treat me with respect, not with blame, shame and silence. They are living CHRIST'S WORD. I tried to
learn it from you Roman Catholic Church, but you failed me.
You can keep your silence. I have own the fight. I found my voice and I am not ashamed. It was not my fault. |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on May 23, 2009 6:20 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I read over Alexandria and Peggy's responses and thank you for them. Here's the bottom line. It wasn't our fault and we were
blamed for it.
I hope that I can share something that will shed some light on this for the Catholic religious who are reading. When the faithful
come to you and bond with you in a spiritual friendship, it is not a consensual affair. Because you are a priest or a nun,
we put you on a pedestal and we try to find GOD through you. We respect you highly. When the religious who crosses boundaries
violates, those selfish moments to indulge a sexual need cast widespread damage on the lay Catholic and his or her family.
It's like shooting a bb gun, then finding yourself standing before the Grand Canyon that you created, except it's not a pretty
sight.
The truth in survivorship for us comes very clearly. It wasn't our fault that we tried to find God through you and you used
us and went silent on us. Some of us feel that God has abandoned us because you chose silence, anger and everything that is
NOT Christian to communicate. Silence, Catholic Church, is violence. SOS is an emergency. Sound over Silence saves lives.
Instead of communicating with us, Roman Catholic Church, you blamed us. |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on May 23, 2009 10:19 AM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Alexandra, Those comments were directly geared toward Lillian. Hearing those words from others is what helped me overcome
the blame I was putting on myself. The 'I should have known' I hoped to do the same for Lillian. I can absolutely relate
to what you are saying, though. My husband wasn't raised with with any organized religion, yet, he too, like yourself was
raised to respect all clerics. He has written and has said time and time again, that he was also fooled by Voelker. The
reverence of the Pope by society is just another example of 'you don't have to be Catholic to be fooled by these guys'. Almost
any religion can be interchanged with 'Catholic'. Society as a whole believes clerics can be trusted. - no different than
other helping professions - doctors, therapists, law enforcement etc... I am glad you addressed this topic - important educating!
Have a great memorial weekend! |
How did you hear about this site? |
me |
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submitted on May 23, 2009 8:02 AM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Hi Peggy, Slight correction though otherwise thank you for your kind words. While one of my grandmothers was Catholic as was
my mother, before marriage, I was not reared a Catholic. However, I was taught to respect clerics of all faiths, which is
why I did not suspect anything might be wrong when the Jesuit who abused me expressed an interest in becoming better acquainted
with me. I already knew he'd taken both a vow of celibacy and chastity and was dating other men. If he had told me at the
start he was interested in me sexually, I would have run, because he was a priest and because I was not interested in him
"that way." He took his time grooming me and I only learned, later on, that he had the patience with me only because at any
given time he was "grooming" several women for eventual, sexual relations. The truth is, I would make a better celibate and
could keep a vow of chastity better than most priests. So, I think part of the appeal for him was the challenge. I was not
like most women in being impressed or charmed with him right away. Even sex addicts don't like easy conquests, it seems ... |
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submitted on May 21, 2009 10:04 PM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Alexandra, Thank you for providing the link - and you are beautiful, PTSD and all :)!
Lillian, Thank you for sharing - you have come a long way! I am so proud of you! You have nothing to be ashamed of and
I want to address a statment you wrote 'We should have been with it! We should have understood.' You shouldn't have reacted
any differently than what you did. You were raised cradle Catholic, raised to obey, raised with the utmost respect for the
religious, see the good in everyone, give everyone the benefit of the doubt, etc....The only way you 'should have known' is
if you had been exploited in the past, then you may have recognized the red flags but even knowing the reg flags isn't always
a sure protection against master manipulators. These predators are very good at what they do but because of your voice, and
Alexandras' and the many other men and women who have come forward to expose adult clergy exploitation, hopefully lay people
will recognize the wolf in sheep's clothing and steer clear. |
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submitted on May 21, 2009 9:35 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I tried for 8 years to affect a real openness, sound, and reconciliation. What I got instead, was evasiveness. My attempts
to communicate with the order were sidestepped by the nun, who got promoted to the steering committee of the soapmaking guild.
I was told through the soapmaking grapevine by an insider that there was no lawsuit(we had an aunt in the order and did NOT
want to sue), so they couldn't dismiss her. The head of the guild sent me some awful email. Basically, go away. I spoke up,
and was once again, diminished. Do you know what it feels like to be a soapmaker and to not be able to attend any type of
conventions or belong to the association because the person who sexually violated you sits on the steering committee?
The way the order handled this, the way the nun handled it, and their combination of silence and anger towards me, cost me
my faith. After months alone...After a rocky road belonging to any church, I am attending Bible study at a Christian (nonCatholic)
church with a ministry director who doesn't go silent on me, who is there whenever I need to talk and who is 100% appropriate.
I am finally freeing myself of the painful, shameful account. No longer in a rage, no longer so sick to my stomach I vomit.
The gift of your survivorship, Peggy and now Alexandra who inspired her, formed the beginning of my true healing. That is
your gift of sound, given from your healing hearts. Thank you to both of you. Your efforts are healing. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 21, 2009 9:25 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
3rd post to Alexandria and all |
Comments: |
When it became apparent to me was the day my sister, a nurse practitioner, told me that the topless aspect of a massage is
not part of a therapeutic massage, I turned to the order for explanation. I was in deep shock. They went silent. Including
my husband's aunt. They all went silent. For three years, I fought that silence. I wanted explanations, I wanted openness,
I wanted to dialogue, I wanted reconciliation. What I got was a screaming at in the airport when the nun showed up while I
was on my way back from a retreat, to tell me to go away and never contact any of them again. Fast forward to 2003. Silence
broken, they started communicating. An elderly nun, who was very nice, emailing me 5 times a day, sending me pictures of deceased
nuns in heaven praying for me, recipes. If I fell silent, she would worry. Now it was on the other foot. Though the elderly
nun was appropriate in all but her excessive communication with me, the communication was all about avoiding the issue and
covering it up. |
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submitted on May 21, 2009 9:22 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
My story continues. I began handcrafting soap in 1995. In the year 2000, I was contacted by a nun in my husband's aunt's order
to learn to make soap. She came to our home and the massage was a THANK YOU for the lessons. She emphasized that a topless
massage was done, and I quote "to heal the sternum". Devout me. I believed it. But then her letters, and her phone calls.
I would share them with my husband. We were in denial. We were trying to find the appropriateness in something very inappropriate.
This is where the Church doesn't get it. We should have been with it! We should have understood. This was consensual,they
say, in so many of these cases. There was NOTHING consensual about what this nun did to me, and how she has affected our lives.
My husband cried the day he found out about the massage. I had not shared it with him until 4 months after it happened. I
was ashamed. |
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submitted on May 21, 2009 9:19 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Alexandria, there's nothing wrong with your picture. You look like someone I would have befriended. That's what happens.
I can tell by your writing that if we were in the same city, we would have been friends. Peggy too. Peggy is a friend of mine
on facebook. We're women with feelings, who trusted implicitly and got burned by people who should not be in religious life,
PERIOD.
When I was 19, I discerned for religious life. My dad was against it, so I didn't go through with it. I went on a retreat
and met my husband. During the time of my discernment, there were no improprieties of any kind from priest or nun. However,
when I was in college, a fellow student I befriended, confessed to me that she was a victim of clergy abuse. The next day,
she was gone off campus and none of the staff would tell me where she had gone (Catholic college). I didn't know that kind
of pain until 2001, when it happened to me. Devout. yes. Deeply devout. I write music, poetry and loved being in the church.
I will continue in the next message....
|
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on May 21, 2009 2:57 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Lillian, here is the URL for my story: http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/06.27.02/priests-0226.html
Please, bear in mind when you see the picture of me that I was being treated for post-traumatic stress disorder, among other
things. I was still in very, very bad shape when I was interviewed for this article, but otherwise determined that the Jesuit
who abused me was not going to get away with it. All the more determined because I knew of a woman he'd been involved with
before me, whom he'd impregnated and abandoned after she miscarried. I did not disclose that to the reporter, because I did
not feel it was my place to publicize the other woman's experience, without her permission. As it happens now, I feel all
right with mentioning this happened so long as I don't disclose her identity or whereabouts. Suffice to note: the Jesuit who
abused me had a pattern of targeting non-Catholic women because he thought (and this is a direct quote), "It's less of a sin."
Additionally, I later learned he was treated for "sex addiction" and is supposed to be going to SAA meetings for the duration
of his life as part of his "after care" requirements.
As I had no power to have him removed from the priesthood or any other way of warning other women about his "problems" apart
from going to the press with my story, I did what I felt I had to do, when this story was written.
Other women have told me my story helped them, but Peggy has done the most in terms of using her own experience to help others,
including me. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 20, 2009 4:48 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
lillian@fragrantblossom.com |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Hi Peggy,
Where can I read her story?
Peace and healing and joyful sound to overcoming survivors, all of us who met the brick wall of silence when we courageously
spoke up to denounce wrong doing in the Roman Catholic Church.
Lillian
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How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 19, 2009 11:18 PM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Hi Lillian,
You are right, Alexandra is a wonderful person, just like yourself and Bonnie and the countless other victims/survivors that
I have had the privilege of getting to know over this now 5 yr journey - some of the most selfless, courageous, intellegent
people. People that are closer to God than the majority of 'religious' could ever dream about being. Peace and healing to
all victims and survivors! FYI - Lillian, reading Alexandra's story online 5 yrs ago was pivotal in giving me the courage
to speak out. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 19, 2009 8:07 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Alexandria you are a very neat person, insightful, and I was reflecting right now, when thinking of you, and of Peggy, and
Bonnie and all of us who were devout, trusted the wrong people (in religion) and got burned.
Sometimes the nicest people get burned.
To those out there who are defending the predators, there is wisdom in the addage "do not judge me til you have walked a mile
in my shoes". Our shoes have holes in them and our souls hurt from the abuse. You have no clue as to what we have been through.
SOS means Sound over Silence. SOS is an emergency situation. Each moment the Church remains silent with a survivor, that survivor's
faith life is dying. Bitterness and deep anger comes hand in hand and this is the effect of silence after abuse as well as
the abuse itself. Silence from a church once trusted is salt in the wound.
One of the most telling things I have written here is that I can hear a pin drop amongst cowards.
Those of you Catholics who are defending, are you defending Barabbas? Who of you would pick up that cross that has the survivor
pinned to the ground and carry it?
I
can
hear
a
pin
drop
amongst
cowards.
John 16:33
I have come to realize that if you pray to God but remain silent to the hurt, you are not praying. If you pray to God but
defend the heinous things that religious do, abusing their religion, you are not praying. Amen. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 16, 2009 7:38 AM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.robertts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I understand Bonny's depth of anger very well as I have felt the same countless times over what was done to me and other victims,
and because there are people like Amy and Marie who persist in ignoring the priests' misconduct and blaming victims who expose
the priests' hypocrisy. Lillian, thank you for scriptual and doctrinal corroboration. You could also add that the Church's
own canon laws state that it is evil to remain silent in the face of wrongdoing, including that of priests. Furthermore Canon
212 §3 states that the Catholic faithful have
the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence
and position, to manifest to the sacred Pastors their views on matters which concern the good of the Church. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 15, 2009 10:23 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
this one is for survivors:
Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.
Lebanese Poet Kahlil Gibran
Never, ever let those argumentative people who defend a silent and angry situation against survivors define you. They do not
have a clue.
I studied the Bible last year, and hold on to Exodus 14:14 and John 16:33.
Amy, I suggest you put your anger down and pick up the Bible. Your bitterness only serves to drive a wedge further between
survivors and the silent church, which makes little to no effort to reach the hurting. |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on May 15, 2009 10:06 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
lillian@fragrantblossom.com |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Responding to Maria and Amy. You have absolutely no clue of what it feels like to face a wall of silence. I suggest you both
read the study on reconciliation as written by the Fathers of the Precious Blood. It states specifically that each side becomes
a new creation when communication and sound happen. We weren't given that courtesy, girls. We were ignored completely. In
the manner that one of you type, I searched very hard to find any semblance of Christianity in your message. It was more in
the attack mode against Peggy and survivors on this board than anything else. Let's put this simply. you have no clue about
what it means to be a survivor. Your obsessive ignorance is salt in the wound to people who are valiantly trying to overcome.
Fr. Voelker humped Peggy. How can you defend that? Denial is one of Satan's biggest weapons, girls. You cannot defend the
indefensible.
I am proud of Peggy's choice to keep this website and her show going despite the venom she has received.
Anger+Silence+AbusiveViolence= Satan
If you want to try to understand, then stop the attacks and really try to understand. To understand what it feels like to
rub soap on body parts where hands touched you, to never get those hands off. Sexual violence is very ugly.
Fr. Nick Voelker may very well be in your estimation a nice guy. However, he violated Peggy's trust and destroyed her faith
with his sexual lust.
There is no defense. Instead of submitting psychobabble that defends wrongdoing, show us forgiveness by accepting that there
IS pain, there IS hurt and there WAS abuse and that Fr. Voelker should not be in ministry in any way, shape or form. If you
can't accept that, God will. Fr. V has a lot of explaining to do.
The Catholic church doesn't get it! The blaming, the punishment, the anger towards survivors is heinous! Where is the nurture,
the retreats, the sound?
I can hear a pin drop amongst cowards! |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy Warren |
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submitted on May 15, 2009 11:49 AM EDT |
Name: |
bonny |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
n/a |
Comments: |
to "MARIA'---IF YOU THINK THIS PRIEST IF GOOD LOOKING---GET YOUR FAT ASS OFF THIS WEB SITE AND GO FUCK WITH HIM AND LEAVE
ALL OF US ALONE! WE DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THIS
NOW FOR THE ACE IN THE HOLE----I GIVE PEGGY WARREN THE INFO ---ONE HAS BEEN LOOKING FOR SINCE 1963--- AN UNKNOWN NUN USE TO
COME INTO OUR PROPERTY AND DO ALL KIND OF THINGS LIKE LOOK AT OUR INSURANCE THINGS ID THEFT---THINGS ETC====WELL---IN 1963---A
SHERIFF DEPUTY CAME SEE ABOUT US AND WITH THE GOOD NESS OF THEIR HEART HE ALONG WITH PERMISSIONS OF US INSTALLED HIDDEN CAMERAS
INTO ALL OUR HOME FROM BACK TO FRONT====VIEWING ALL WHO ENTERED FOR MANY YEARS---WHEN WE WERE NOT HOME---THESE TAPES ARE IN
THE HANDS OF A SMART DETECTIVE WHO IS A KIND AND CONSIDERATE PERSON WHO KNOWS MY STORY
AND HAS VIERWED WHO ANDWHAT TOOK PLACE AT THE HANDS OF A "CERTAIN NUN"
THIS TOOK PLACE FOR MANY YEARS AND IF SHE THINKS SHE GOT AWAY WITH IT SHE DID NOT---I DONT HAVE THEM ANY MORE IT IS THE SHERRIFF
DEPT THAT DOES---THEY HAVE IDENTIFIED HER AS OF WHO WE NAMED
AND WE ARE JUST AT A STAND STILL--OF WHAT WILL OCCUR--PLEASE NOTE THAT ON THIS DAY I AM HONORING MEMORIAL PEACE OFFICERS DAY--AND
TO OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT I DO GIVE THEM CREDIT BECAUSE ---LIKE SOMEONE SAID--"GOD DID PROTECT OUR HOME"
TO ENTER A HOME WITHOUTTHE PERMISSION AN DO THINGS OF WHICH WERE DONE IS UNLAWFUL AND CAN BE PROSECUTED EVEN TOTHIS DAY--ESPECIALLY
IF THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT TO DO BODILY HARM---AND THERE WAS---AS FAR BACK AS 1993---
SO PLEASE IF YOU READ THIS---THINK ABOUT THE ALTERNATIVES TO THIS CRIME
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How did you hear about this site? |
peggy |
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submitted on May 14, 2009 9:30 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Again, I have to concur with you Peggy. In a way I pity Marie for being that limited. Maybe I should instead pray for her
to become inspired to explore life beyond defending Voelker ... Meanwhile, I'm going back to reading a biography about the
late Lord Mountbatten -- British naval war hero, "Honorary Grandfather" to Prince Charles, nephew of the last Russian czar
... Beats reading Marie's posts ... |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 14, 2009 9:05 PM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Hi Alexandria,
While I understand your recommendation, I think it is important to leave Marie's repetative posts, it just goes to show that
her intelligence and vocabulary is limited. She is definitely hanging around Voelker too much. |
How did you hear about this site? |
me |
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submitted on May 14, 2009 8:55 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Ooh! Dead on, Peggy! Predators and abusers do indeed accuse their victims of doing the very things they are guilty of. My
late ex-husband the rock star accused me of being unfaithful to him everytime he was sleeping his way through "groupies."
So, perhaps there are indeed posters to this board who are only here to be as voyeurs to our stories. Then I feel sorry for
you, and don't require your sympathies or prayers or fale piety. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 14, 2009 8:39 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Amy, unlike with Marie, I have the honest impression you mean well. But let me hasten to assure you that whatever is posted
to this board no more represents the totality of who and what I am than it does you or anyone else. But since you asked for
details here goes. And I'm speaking only for me, at this time. I am the mother of two grown children and grandmother of three.
The priest who exploited me even baptized one of my grandchildren and referred to himself as being her "honorary godfather."
A title he's long since relinquished. I am an Air Force veteran, former medical assistant who helped bring 98 babies into
this world while serving my country, former wife of a famous Australian rock star and actor. I have been variously employed
as a sous chef, model, software development project coordinator for a Fortune 500 Company (the one that probably manufactured
your computer's printer), freelance writer for both newspapers and magazines and I even wrote a stage play that actually made
it to Hollywood, however briefly. Apart from the Jesuit who damned near caused me to commit suicide, I have dated men who
still like and respect me and in some cases volunteered to go back and "punch the priest's lights out." This past Mother's
Day, my daughter, eldest granddaughter and I celebrated by seeing the new Star Trek movie, followed by having a Texas BBQ
lunch, topped off by French pastries for dessert. It was ecclectic and suited us perfectly. So, Amy, yes, I do have a life
apart from having been sexually abused and exploited by a Jesuit. But that will not stop me from putting out the warning that
he is (still) a user and abuser. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 14, 2009 8:13 PM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Amy,
I think YOU might need some help if you think we are 'getting off' as you say. Most predators actually throw around accusations
when in fact the predator 'owns' whatever it is they are accusing, in your case, 'getting off'. Yuk! can anyone call 1-800-therapist
for Amy. Also let me clue you in on websites, what is fabulous about a website is that it continues to work even when the
'owner' is doing other things. Gotta love technology! |
How did you hear about this site? |
me |
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submitted on May 14, 2009 7:28 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Dear Marie, You keep posting the same thing over and over again, as if you believe that in repeating this post -- like a Rosary
for Robots Obsessed with Defending Predatory Priests -- you'll change the minds of the other posters. It's your right to post
what you like. But I'm here to tell you the repetition is boring and that it is doing nothing in terms of convincing me or
others that Peggy's wrong and Voelker's right. Quite the opposite. Dare to be original and comment on some of the other comments
that have been posted here. But then you probably haven't had the courtesy to actually read them.
Peggy, respectfully request and recommend that you delete any of Marie's posts that are simply carbon-copies of whatever s(h)e's
already posted.
Marie, if you really believe you have something valuable to offer to us, drop the Robo Christian Cop bit, already. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 14, 2009 7:28 PM EDT |
Name: |
Amy |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
What constructive things are you people doing in your lives? Are you helping children grow? Are you teaching them? Are you
taking them to sports and other activities? Are you loving and taking care of your own parents? Are you working? Are you
trying to make the world a better place? You think you are with this site; however, you are sickening and poisoning the world
with trashy sexual abuse stories. You are feeding off each other and spitting your venom on to anyone who will listen to you.
Yes, sexual abuse is a worldwide problem in every place and situation in this world. Bad things happen to good people.
Some of us have had desperately sick things done to us, but we rise above it and make ourselves useful to society instead
of wallowing in self pity and feeding off each others misery. We are intelligent enough to figure this out. You are not.
You are all to be pitied. In fact, I think you all "get off" on talking about your sexual abuse. Instead of being with a
child tonight, you get into your "pleasure zone" by talking about your abuse like a broken record. What a sick wasted life.
May God help all of you and may you all find some peace in your lives. Peace cannot be achieved without God. Aren't you
all smarter than those who abused you? Then wake up and act like it and rise above it. Let God take care of the abusers.
Leave them to him. He will see that justice is done.
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How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 14, 2009 7:11 PM EDT |
Name: |
Marie |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I am a parishioner at St. Teresa's, where Father Nicholas Voelker is currently assigned. Initially, people were confused about
Father Nick because of this site. After 9 months, it has become very clear that he is a wonderful, spiritual priest who truly
cares about each and every parishioner. He works very hard and he loves his parish. He loves the children and the school.
We love him too. He is not the monster that Peggy Warren would like for people to believe. Please see the news reports and
the District Attorney's interview. This was a consensual relationship between Father Nick and Mrs. Warren. It was wrong. It
required no further investigation. We are all human. Ms. Warren is extremely bitter that he did not leave the church for her.
He is a very handsome man and a very kind Soul. My heart goes out to all of you who were "truly" abused by clergy. My heart
goes out to all who were sexually abused and exploited by their own parents, uncles, aunts, grandfathers, teachers, ministers,
police officers, therapists, physicians. Need I say more? Why this has to happen is beyond our understanding. Truly, only
God can heal these wounds. Stay close to him and do not turn away from the church. Satan would like to keep you away from
the church with sites like these. This is only here to confuse you and keep you in the throes of hate, bitterness, and emotional
turmoil. Don't waste your time being emotional cripples. People need your talents for constructive healing things. Children
need you. My prayers will be with all of you. You are all so dearly loved by your Creator. Now, turn to Him for help |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 14, 2009 2:18 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Hi Peggy, I like what you wrote to Cutie and I hope he got it. Though I suspect, as usual, he's been sequestered "in treatment"
by his superiors and is undergoing the brainwash therapy that the Church PR people vehemently deny even exists. Unfortunately
for them, my daughter served as assistant to legal counsel for a woman - a psychiatric nurse - who used to work at a treatment
facility for priests and quit. As she told my daughter she quit for two primary reasons: she didn't like the way the bishops
ignored "after-care" recommendations made by their facility on how to handle pedophile priests AND she said she didn't like
the fact that priests who "fall in love are sent to treatment facilities (like the one she worked at) so the therapists can
attempt to convince the priests they were 'sick' when they fell in love and that pursuit of the relationship is 'unhealthy'"
and so on. This gave me cold chills when I heard this, because this validated what I'd heard from the Jesuit who abused me.
While he wasn't supposed to call me while he was in therapy, he did. Among other things he told me was of having gone through
a session in which a female therapist pretended to be me, and how he was told to practice telling 'me' (the therapist) "Get
off my back. I don't want to get married." (For the record, he was the one who brought up the subject of marriage with me,
though his therapists eventually convinced him I'd tricked him into talking about it)
In short: you can be assured that Fr. Cutie's superiors with the help of therapists are doing everything in their power to
make sure he drops the notion of marrying the woman and returns, as penitent priest, to church work. Why? The Church invests
that much in priest formation and because they are losing priests faster than they can replace them. The Church would rather
be guilty of having abuse of victims on its conscience than accept the fact mandatory celibacy is a total bust and sham.
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How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 14, 2009 9:48 AM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Hi Alexandria, I sent this email to EWTN a couple of days ago, hoping they will pass it onto Cutie. I agree, it is infuriating
that it is all about him with hardly any mention of woman.
Dear Alberto Cutie,
If you really love this woman you will leave the priesthood. If you don't leave the priesthood, you will be looked upon as
just one more of the thousands of priests that exploit lay people for their own sexual pleasures. Be a man of integrity and
leave the priesthood for your sake and for HERS! Don't just think about yourself, think about HER! In some states she would
be considered a victim and you could be charged with felony unlawful sexual relations. This is not all about you, there is
another person affected by this!
Sincerely,
Peggy Warren
Wichita, KS
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
How did you hear about this site? |
me |
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submitted on May 14, 2009 9:32 AM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Is anyone else as sick of, as I already am, of hearing about Fr. Alberto Cutie' being 'caught' on the beach with a woman he
may or may not leave the priesthood, to marry? Why did this incite national attention and controversy, as opposed to any other
case of a priest thinking he can get away with exploiting a woman (or women) on the sly? It only counts if the priest's last
name is a bad pun on his appearance? More upsetting to me is the fact, as usual, everyone is focused on impacts to the priest
and Church and nevermind the victim. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 12, 2009 1:21 PM EDT |
Name: |
Jane Murdock |
Email Address: |
janemurdock@gmail.com |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
I am in the moment pursuing charges against a non denominational minister. I am scared to death. Thanks for your web site.
Feel free to communicate w/me if you have time. |
How did you hear about this site? |
on the internet I found it. |
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submitted on May 10, 2009 6:30 PM EDT |
Name: |
Lillian |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Happy Mother's Day to Peggy and all moms reading this. I came back to post today also because I saw a movie that's on DSL
right now called Doubt. The movie's message is mirrored in the current church situation. The denial is strong, that any good
religious in the church stand to lose their positions if they make a major statement about abuse. That's the message I got
from the movie.
I had no choice, after 8 years of trying, except to come to terms with the fact that whatever good there IS in the Church,
it is weakly defeated by the evil in the church. Denial is one of the strongest weapons of evil. Denial that there's a problem.
It is absolutely, without a doubt..EVIL at work in the Roman Catholic Church. To quote a Carmelite Sister I spoke with early
on in my denial before I came to terms with the truth (veritas), the Roman Catholic Church needs to be purged.
I came to church a long time ago to get away from evil, and sadly, I found it in the church. Evil is strong, present and real,
shrouded in the active strength of the denial of its constituents. |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy's become a friend, as she is to many, an awesome lady. Happy Mother's Day Peggy! |
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submitted on May 10, 2009 10:48 AM EDT |
Name: |
bonny |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
none-- |
Comments: |
to :peggy warren: one of the most wonderful mother in the world i wish you a happy mother day on this day may 10 2009----i
have a mom---i gave her a card this morning---i am thankful God has gave her to me this long---you are a good mother--and
I wishyou a good day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
How did you hear about this site? |
dee miller |
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submitted on May 10, 2009 9:27 AM EDT |
Name: |
Robert V.Z.L. |
Email Address: |
boblinde@comcast.net |
Web site URL: |
Boblinde@comcast.net |
Comments: |
It is so good to see so many of you doing what helps a whole lot. That is VENTING ! Look how many years I stuffed child abuse
that was closer to actual torture, and The Murder of my little friend, Gilbert Bonneau. I will soon be 66, and those nightmares
just keep on coming. I still have to take prescription drugs to help me get 6-7 hours of sleep a night. Don't be ashamed,
or afraid to even face those Pedophiles, and Predators. I flew thousands of miles just so I could stare some of those that
I knew, right in the eye. Stay strong, and most of all, stick together. Many can do more than just one. It took radio, and
television to bring Gilberts murder to the forefront. It also took that media to explain the difference between a spanking,
and a beating. Whenever, and wherever you get the opportunity to tell your story, you tell it loud, and clear. Without people
like us, who would believe that the worst of Abuse hides behind "The Robe, and The Collar". I care about all of you, but I
can not, and will not go into "Details of Gilbert, and St. Colmans" by personal email. There are many web sites that tell
the story. A lot of the story is on the disc, and if you can't find it look up Annie Armen, or Arman. Not sure of spelling.
You can also Google my last name: VonZurLinde , and get all you want to read about some of the most horrible years people
can even imagine. Remember, its not just children that are being stalked by Predator's. Know who you hang around with, and
surely know who your children play with. If you child is going camping or something like that, you check out every Adult that
will be going along. Just recently I have received another death threat, and they told me my address, etc: Thats nothing new,
but each new threat brings on a new alarm. Be careful Ladies, Children, and believe this or not, be careful some men. God
Bless You.
Bob |
How did you hear about this site? |
Peggy |
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submitted on May 8, 2009 6:55 PM EDT |
Name: |
bonny |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
none |
Comments: |
peggy---you are a god sent---i was able to "hear" the dvd--i barly could hear--your conference--but i think you are about
the most courage filled person i ever saw and i am glad i "made a new friend---i dont have any but long distance---i feel
i know you
i feel you are wonderful and helpful to victims like me--i cannot thank you enough for this web site ---you are GREAT---i
wrote the grat pretender--and it was about getting back self esteem--but you dont pretend--you are more of a person than ---all
the nuns and priest in kansas--god bless |
How did you hear about this site? |
dee miller |
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submitted on May 6, 2009 5:06 PM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
I was being serious when I said - 'I like seeing this guestbook used as a discussion board - I think it is great! Keep up
the great discussion ladies! |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 6, 2009 3:55 PM EDT |
Name: |
libertebelle |
Email Address: |
alexandria.roberts@comast.net |
Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
Lillian, I love Silence is Violence.
Bonny, Sad to say there are countless instances that have been documented of children having been sexually abused in church
orphanages, schools, foster care and by their own relatives. I sympathize with you as I was abused by both a male relative,
when I was a girl, and then again by a Catholic priest, when I was older. It is very hard to heal from these wounds, even
if a victim is determined to recover and move past the damage. It's as if we get rolling along nicely for awhile and then
are suddenly jerked short by something that reminds us of the abuse. What people like Marie don't 'get' is the fact it's just
about impossible for abuse victims to simply forgive and forget and move on -- even if they want to do that.
Peggy, if we should be posting to an actual discussion board instead of guest book, please redirect. I don't want to misuse
this as blog space if you have another option on this website. |
How did you hear about this site? |
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submitted on May 6, 2009 1:58 PM EDT |
Name: |
bonny |
Email Address: |
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Web site URL: |
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Comments: |
liberybelle---yes you are right one has nothing to do with the other---also i have no opinion on abortion--but sexual abuse---a
7 or8 year old Knows they are being sexually abused a fetus does not know---I knew I was being abused at 3 by a mean grandmother
--emotional abuse it was cruel treatment to a child---however she never did it in front of my mom, so they know how and when
to do it=---abortion and sexual abuse is different and maybe you can tell this so call priest he is wrong---or just tell him
to fuck off---and leave you alone
i am trying to watch this vidieo of the murder ofa child in new york in 1950--and i had the same or almost ther same thing
inside my own town---skeltons found inside a convent after it was torn down--some they say were out inside a wall --others
in attic others stuffed under boards---i know this for a fact ,because the people knew people i knew--they saw this--and they
say when they found them the bishop came and took them away---some or a least one was at least 8 years old
when they found this out some people told me---these nuns are phonies--i wish i could watch this showof that but i can relate
to bob--who called in and said how much he was abused inside a orphanage---one 20miles away my own cousin was in one---for
a while she told me the nuns would push her head underwater--she told me "they were mean"---so even where I live there is
abuse all over--and things like this went on---there is a book--written in about this but i cannot remember the title-- |
How did you hear about this site? |
dee miller |
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submitted on May 6, 2009 12:32 PM EDT |
Name: |
Peggy |
Email Address: |
pwarren17@cox.net |
Web site URL: |
www.educatingtoendabuse.com |
Comments: |
Lillian,
Silence is Violence is perfect - it is a great title that will definitely be used for something in the near future. I will
pass it on. Thank you, Lillian! |
How did you hear about this site? |
me |
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